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	<title>Comments on: Cored Laminates in GRP Boats</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/</link>
	<description>Dan’s Blog about Sailing on a Telstar 28 named Pretty Gee, Friends, Family, Photography, Security, Technology, and other things.</description>
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		<title>By: Cored Hulls and Decks - SailNet Community</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-56985</link>
		<dc:creator>Cored Hulls and Decks - SailNet Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-56985</guid>
		<description>[...]  I&#039;d recommend you read the article I wrote on Cored Laminates, as it should give you a pretty good overview about core materials and such.  Properly designed and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  I&#039;d recommend you read the article I wrote on Cored Laminates, as it should give you a pretty good overview about core materials and such.  Properly designed and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: hull - SailNet Community</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-55757</link>
		<dc:creator>hull - SailNet Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-55757</guid>
		<description>[...] want to read this primer I wrote on Fiberglass Composites for boats...    __________________ Sailingdog  Telstar 28 New England  You know what the first rule of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] want to read this primer I wrote on Fiberglass Composites for boats&#8230;    __________________ Sailingdog  Telstar 28 New England  You know what the first rule of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: granfury84</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-51281</link>
		<dc:creator>granfury84</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-51281</guid>
		<description>Hello I was wondering if I could talk with you for a moment as I have many questions regarding a telstar 28 that I have just put a down payment on (hull 315)  in Michigan.  I still have to sign the final loan docs this week.  I know this is last minuet but I am a little nervous about a few things and you knowledge of this vessel is deep.  My email is granfury84 {at} hotmail {dot} com 

Michael.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello I was wondering if I could talk with you for a moment as I have many questions regarding a telstar 28 that I have just put a down payment on (hull 315)  in Michigan.  I still have to sign the final loan docs this week.  I know this is last minuet but I am a little nervous about a few things and you knowledge of this vessel is deep.  My email is granfury84 {at} hotmail {dot} com </p>
<p>Michael.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-50891</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-50891</guid>
		<description>Gringo—

It really depends on what you&#039;re looking for in a catamaran.  The Endeavors and Catalacs are considerably older designs than the Gemini 105Mc.  I know of two Geminis that have ridden out hurricanes on moorings or at anchor, so I don’t really feel that the Geminis are that lightly built. One thing to be aware of is that Geminis, like my Telstar, are built with a specific price point in mind, and that the fit and finish of the boat reflects that.  While the boats don’t have the elegant fit and finish of a Lagoon or Quorning Dragonfly, neither do they have the prohibitive price tag.  

Both the Gemini and the Telstar give you a lot of boat for the buck.  They have solid bones, but do have some shortcomings.  However, they give their owners a chance to get out there and go, far sooner than they would be able to do so on another brand of boat in many cases. 

I’d point out the relatively high resale value of the Geminis says a lot about them as a brand.  Be aware that Performance Cruising recently split into two companies.  Performance Cruising now only handles the Gemini catamarans, and is partnered with The Catamaran Company, and owned by a management company that is run by Laura Hershfeld, Tony Smith’s daughter.  The Telstar 28 and its operations are now owned by a new company called Performance Sailing, and that company is owned by Tony Smith.  There has been a delay in resumption of producing the Telstar 28.  IIRC, Tony, along with his wife Sue, are going to be sailing a Telstar 28 down the Pacific coast of North America as a demonstration of the boat’s capabilities next year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gringo—</p>
<p>It really depends on what you&#8217;re looking for in a catamaran.  The Endeavors and Catalacs are considerably older designs than the Gemini 105Mc.  I know of two Geminis that have ridden out hurricanes on moorings or at anchor, so I don’t really feel that the Geminis are that lightly built. One thing to be aware of is that Geminis, like my Telstar, are built with a specific price point in mind, and that the fit and finish of the boat reflects that.  While the boats don’t have the elegant fit and finish of a Lagoon or Quorning Dragonfly, neither do they have the prohibitive price tag.  </p>
<p>Both the Gemini and the Telstar give you a lot of boat for the buck.  They have solid bones, but do have some shortcomings.  However, they give their owners a chance to get out there and go, far sooner than they would be able to do so on another brand of boat in many cases. </p>
<p>I’d point out the relatively high resale value of the Geminis says a lot about them as a brand.  Be aware that Performance Cruising recently split into two companies.  Performance Cruising now only handles the Gemini catamarans, and is partnered with The Catamaran Company, and owned by a management company that is run by Laura Hershfeld, Tony Smith’s daughter.  The Telstar 28 and its operations are now owned by a new company called Performance Sailing, and that company is owned by Tony Smith.  There has been a delay in resumption of producing the Telstar 28.  IIRC, Tony, along with his wife Sue, are going to be sailing a Telstar 28 down the Pacific coast of North America as a demonstration of the boat’s capabilities next year.</p>
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		<title>By: Gringo</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-50887</link>
		<dc:creator>Gringo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-50887</guid>
		<description>Interesting stuff.  My wife and I are actively shopping for a Gemini 105Mc, and I was curious about the balsa cored deck.   Some people think the Geminis are too lightly built, and have a &#039;springy&#039; feel.   Those people sometimes prefer the heavier UK built cats like the Catalac and Endeavors.    

Nice blog, by the way.  I found it researching Gemini&#039;s.  I spent twenty years living on Cape Cod, working in offshore and underwater field.   Now I live in the Turks and Caicos Islands, and it does my heart good to see people freezing in Buzzards Bay,  ha ha.  ( Just kidding)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting stuff.  My wife and I are actively shopping for a Gemini 105Mc, and I was curious about the balsa cored deck.   Some people think the Geminis are too lightly built, and have a &#8216;springy&#8217; feel.   Those people sometimes prefer the heavier UK built cats like the Catalac and Endeavors.    </p>
<p>Nice blog, by the way.  I found it researching Gemini&#8217;s.  I spent twenty years living on Cape Cod, working in offshore and underwater field.   Now I live in the Turks and Caicos Islands, and it does my heart good to see people freezing in Buzzards Bay,  ha ha.  ( Just kidding)</p>
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		<title>By: Wet plywood deck core - how to dry? - SailNet Community</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-49913</link>
		<dc:creator>Wet plywood deck core - how to dry? - SailNet Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-49913</guid>
		<description>[...] Marine plywood is the worst of all core materials for cored laminates, as you can read about HERE.  If you do decide to recore the deck, it would be my recommendation to cut the top laminate layer [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Marine plywood is the worst of all core materials for cored laminates, as you can read about HERE.  If you do decide to recore the deck, it would be my recommendation to cut the top laminate layer [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-49824</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-49824</guid>
		<description>desertsea—

I don&#039;t think that there is a good base of knowledge, since the construction techniques used in GRP boats is so varied.  Even among boats of the same design and from the same manufacturer, especially with factories that do hand layup of the laminate, there can be a significant disparity in the weight of the boats. Up to a certain point, the lower the percentage of resin in a laminate, the stronger and lighter it will be, provided there is sufficient resin to properly wet out the fibers. 

As for costs... I think that there are too many factors to say what the costs would be. You&#039;d also, probably, want to look at the costs over the lifespan of the boat.  Steel has serious maintenance issues and if the wrong steel is used, the problems can quickly destroy any value to the boat.  Maintenance is also an important issue.  A properly designed cored GRP laminate is going to be far stronger, stiffer and lighter than non-cored GRP construction and far less expensive for the same given strength of laminate.  A good cored GRP laminate is also going to have far better fatigue resistance characteristics as I understand it. 

Size of the boat also plays a major part.  Boats under 40&#039; LOA really aren&#039;t suitable for construction in steel IMHO.  Steel is also a very lousy material for multihull construction, where weight is such a primary consideration. Given how much stronger carbon fiber, kevlar and spectra based laminates can be than steel per weight, there really is no comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>desertsea—</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that there is a good base of knowledge, since the construction techniques used in GRP boats is so varied.  Even among boats of the same design and from the same manufacturer, especially with factories that do hand layup of the laminate, there can be a significant disparity in the weight of the boats. Up to a certain point, the lower the percentage of resin in a laminate, the stronger and lighter it will be, provided there is sufficient resin to properly wet out the fibers. </p>
<p>As for costs&#8230; I think that there are too many factors to say what the costs would be. You&#8217;d also, probably, want to look at the costs over the lifespan of the boat.  Steel has serious maintenance issues and if the wrong steel is used, the problems can quickly destroy any value to the boat.  Maintenance is also an important issue.  A properly designed cored GRP laminate is going to be far stronger, stiffer and lighter than non-cored GRP construction and far less expensive for the same given strength of laminate.  A good cored GRP laminate is also going to have far better fatigue resistance characteristics as I understand it. </p>
<p>Size of the boat also plays a major part.  Boats under 40&#8242; LOA really aren&#8217;t suitable for construction in steel IMHO.  Steel is also a very lousy material for multihull construction, where weight is such a primary consideration. Given how much stronger carbon fiber, kevlar and spectra based laminates can be than steel per weight, there really is no comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: desertsea</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-49758</link>
		<dc:creator>desertsea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-49758</guid>
		<description>One other topic occurred to me: do naval architects (or insurance people, or anyone) now have a good base of knowledge for knowing where GRP boats fail?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other topic occurred to me: do naval architects (or insurance people, or anyone) now have a good base of knowledge for knowing where GRP boats fail?</p>
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		<title>By: desertsea</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-49757</link>
		<dc:creator>desertsea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-49757</guid>
		<description>Great post and I appreciated your bringing all the &quot;strands&quot; together. 

What to you think would be the differences in weight, strength, and cost between your &quot;ideal construction&quot;, conventional GRP construction, and say, steel?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post and I appreciated your bringing all the &#8220;strands&#8221; together. </p>
<p>What to you think would be the differences in weight, strength, and cost between your &#8220;ideal construction&#8221;, conventional GRP construction, and say, steel?</p>
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		<title>By: Tartan 3400 Cored Hull - SailNet Community</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-49719</link>
		<dc:creator>Tartan 3400 Cored Hull - SailNet Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-49719</guid>
		<description>[...] plywood for a while, but it really is not an appropriate core material, as I&#039;ve written about on my blog.   The problem with end-grain balsa is that it tends to rot if water gets in... then as it rots, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] plywood for a while, but it really is not an appropriate core material, as I&#39;ve written about on my blog.   The problem with end-grain balsa is that it tends to rot if water gets in&#8230; then as it rots, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Deck Recoring Material - SailNet Community</title>
		<link>http://blog.dankim.com/2010/01/15/grp-materials/comment-page-1/#comment-49694</link>
		<dc:creator>Deck Recoring Material - SailNet Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dankim.com/?p=679#comment-49694</guid>
		<description>[...]  Marine Plywood is a horrible choice for core materials, as I&#039;ve written about in this post.   I would recommend going with Airex, which is a ductile PVC foam. It is probably flexible enough [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Marine Plywood is a horrible choice for core materials, as I&#39;ve written about in this post.   I would recommend going with Airex, which is a ductile PVC foam. It is probably flexible enough [...]</p>
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